Their conversation was filled with things to giggle at, things to take on, & things to pass along. It was one of the best interviews & definitely one of the most candid free-flowing discussions I have seen in a while. (Or maybe ever. None that compare come to mind at the moment.) They also talked about the future (this video is from 1992) & it’s interesting to hear them talk about a time that is happening right now.
I also loved that they touched upon revolution & it’s various forms, including the importance of a non-confrontational revolution. (I wrote something on that very topic this week. I will share it as a blog post next week so you can see it.) Over-all I loved every minute of the interview as I smiled & sat on the edge of my seat. I truly felt like two people were discussing everything I find important & wish to explore.
I decided to note the exchanges between Terence Mckenna & Ram Dass that I found either funny or valuable. I also listed random quotes that I enjoyed. But don’t let these notes mislead you. There is still so much more to take from their discussion. I can’t recommend enough for you to watch all 4 videos. They all have much to offer & the delivery of the information is quote entertaining. They both have quite a sense of humor, as does their waiter.
Notable exchanges I enjoyed between Terence Kemp Mckenna & Ram Dass: (You might not find them funny, understand them, or enjoy them out of context. So feel free the skip past them & go straight to the videos. You can always read them after. They’ll make more sense that way.)
RD: [Says to TKM] Go beyond the isms to tell me what we are really finding.
TKM: We’re finding a world made out of mind instead of stuff.
RD: [Says to TKM about TKM] Just clinging, just clinging.
TKM: Just aspiring to cling! Actually I live the life of an ascetic, it’s my aspirations that are pulling me down.
TKM: Can you make a revolution without inner righteousness?
RD: That’s the far-out question of ; Where would the action come from? There is this line in Buddhism that says, “Out of emptiness arises compassion”. And what I’ve experienced is; that there is a way in which I can sit down in front of a truck, or feed a person, or go make love, or go surf. And there is an appropriateness in every one of those acts. But for me to hear that, I really gotta shut up. My work is to keep shutting up. And if it’s a revolution, so be it.
TKM: Blake said a wonderful thing, if I can get it right. He said, “If the truth can be told, so as to be understood, it will be believed .” [The actual quote is: ”Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be believed.” – William Blake ]
RD: When can you say it simply enough? Is it only said in silence simply enough? Or are there words?
RD: My life is my message.
TKM: I think I’m at a little lower level. Because I am very aware that I have to struggle to say my life is my message. I almost rather say, “My message is my message, please don’t look at my life because I’m a fallible human being and I’m constantly fucking up”.
RD: But do you see how that weakens your message? You see how that quality means that the message doesn’t come from the root? There is a way in which it waffles. […] Why waffle? What is worth holding onto that is worth waffling about?
RD: I was afraid of you up until now. Now I am delighted to be with you.
TKM: No, no. Don’t be afraid of me. The people that are afraid of me either don’t know me, or know me better than you ever will.
The four videos:
Additional quotes I enjoyed from the interview…
Terence Mckenna Quotes:
”We once knew everything we need to know. So, what we are trying to find out is lost knowledge, not new knowledge.”
”There is a transcendental dimension beyond language. It’s just hard as hell to talk about it.”
”What they [psychedelics] seem to do generically is, they seem to dissolve boundaries. And the ego is in the business of creating, maintaining, & defending boundaries.”
”The core process which is running us over the edge is our inability to emotionally connect with the consequences of what we are doing. If in a single moment we could feel what we are doing we would stop.”
”I think it was Friedrich Nietzsche that said, ‘There was only one Christian & they crucified him’.”
[The actual quote is: ”There never was more than one Christian, and he died on the Cross.” – Friedrich Nietzsche ]
Ram Dass Quotes:
”All this business of a Christ figure. I see how seductive it is. But we’ve gotten very cynical. We’ve projected into such a person a purpose. Instead of just that life forming out of the needs of the moment.”
”Death is absolutely safe. It’s like taking off a tight shoe.”
”All this destruction is just the process of transformation.”
”Ahhhhhw! It’s the ecstasy of total horror & total beauty at the same moment.”